How “Muchy” Are You?

Cover of Alice in Wonderland

Brett

Yo!

Ulrich

Hey!

Brett

We will have to have a cold-water vibe; it is way too hot in the Bosch for coffee…

Ulrich

Fine with me.

Brett

Cool.

Ulrich

In the new Alice in Wonderland, The Mad Hatter (Johnny Depp) notices that Alice has lost her “muchness”. He says: “You used to be much more… ‘muchier.’ You’ve lost your ‘muchness’.”  Meaning that she has lost herself, her adventurous spirit, what makes her, her. Fortunately for Alice, she finds her true self again through her adventures in Underland (Wonderland). With her “muchness” back, Alice defeats the Jabberwocky (a dragon owned by the Queen of Hearts).

So many people lose their “muchness”, become callous to life, or give up passions because they were emotionally hurt or didn’t get the support they needed. I believe God has placed certain passions in each of us. The more we use them, the “muchier” we become.

Brett

So instead of macho men, we are searching for “muchier” men…

Ulrich

Totally! How do we become more ourselves instead of what the world, family, friends, or Hollywood want?

Brett

My status on Facebook this week: “today remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.” I guess one of the dangers of being a Christ follower is that you can become a sheep and just follow, look and sound like everyone else which I don’t think is, or ever was, God’s intention. That’s just in the church, plus you have the conformity of the world, family and friends thing going… a huge life dilemma.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Ulrich

I agree with you, there is a lot of pressure to conform to others, the society you are in and so on. The problem is that if everyone keeps conforming to what others want, then we can very easily give up really important parts of who we are, not very cool. Let’s talk about how we can lose ourselves, and then also how we can hold on to being as “muchy” as we can.

Brett

Well we live in Stellenbosch, which is a varsity town, and so a lot of it is glaringly obvious – new year beginning, lots of new first years, the older guys try to break them into the varsity(same uniform, same activities, the one res has to walk around with a wooden horse like a broom handle horse for the first week or so), res and town culture (drinking, partying, sex)… At the start of the year it is really easy to follow the trend and so everyone pretty much falls in; having gone from a big person in matric to the bottom of the heap in varsity, really wanting to fit in (the key).

Ulrich

In that instance it is obvious to see the force of conformity, but not always as easy to resist… If we are not careful, we fall into those traps of sex, drinking, getting involved in gossip, etc and then only later realise how trapped or “unmuchy” we feel.

Brett

I think one of the biggest keys to living wrong – or enticements into that trap – is this whole thing of “what do/will people think of me?” and I think that is one of the keys here – we all have this innate desire to feel significant, be loved, accepted, and needed. How we respond to that, and fill it, will determine how great our life is.

It’s important to look at that point – so in Stellenbosch with the first years, is drinking the issue? If it were, we would need to discuss that, but I think the far greater issue is fitting in, and if to fit in meant not drinking, then no one would…

Ulrich

What about subtle ways of losing yourself… For example, maybe you are part of a worship team, but being in that team is not right for you, it makes you too stressed with all the other activities that you have, which leaves you with too many things to do, too little time for life, and no time for God…

Brett

I think the examples you are giving are about pleasing people and about a struggle to say no (which is linked to fitting in and not wanting to disappoint). The answer to these things begins with the question of your identity. As a Christ follower, we should be able to find our identity in God – knowing who I am because this is who God says I am instead of those people around me – I call it living in front of an audience of One.

Ulrich

Nice – audience of One. The place to start then is, who is determining who you are? Who do you submit to? Popular culture? Res “friends” (not all of them are really friends…), a controlling father or God who knows you pretty well?

Brett

One key is reading the Bible and seeing what God says about you – read passages in Corinthians where it talks about how the church is the body of Christ but it is made up of different parts. If we were all eyes where would the hands be and so on… So we need to realise that we are all different parts but that each part is significant. If everyone in the church was a pastor who would make coffee and we seriously need coffee makers…

Ulrich

Heck yes… and Rooibos tea makers…

What has helped me is to ask, how do I act wherever I am, and is it bringing glory to me, others or God.

[To Vibers: Provebs would also be a good book to read through, some awesome practical life tips…]

Brett

It is definitely about understanding who you are in God – also just the basics of John 3.16 “for God so loved” and the fact that God died to save you – that helps create a positive identity when we truly get it – the story of the prodigal son is another one where the son was loved unconditionally by the father and his negative actions did not lose his fathers love for him – when he returned the love was still there and it flooded over him – that is how God sees you.

Our whole lives should be spent as the church and so in a sense, in the “BEingness” of church. If we could get over the myth that church meets on a Sunday we’d be getting somewhere. Once we understand that we are living, breathing, active members of the church (in the meeting on a Sunday and in the world the rest of the week) then it will also influence how we live, speak and act.

What is also key is the knowledge that God has given us different gifts, which in my experience, generally fall in line with our passions. So some people are great surfers and other people are great at being creative. My wife’s sister for example can take a pile of rubbish and create beautiful designs, which is great when you are planning a wedding – she was incredible and I would never have been able to produce what she did. She was needed there for that moment in that area.

Some people have the gift of hospitality. We have a couple in our church who invite different families and students to their house for meals and conversation. It is not a specifically Christian meeting or anything, but they are demonstrating their “muchness” by living out their gifting in a way that encourages, builds up others and helps create community…

Some have the gift of compassion and so they spot the person at the edge of the crowd, too scared to come into the group. They see the person lying in the street in need of help, food or just a friendly word (my beautiful wife is great at that). They spring into action where I would probably see the need and cross over to the other side of the road because I feel paralyzed by my inability to do something. However, another key is learning from the strengths of others. So by watching Val in action these last two years, hopefully I will become a lot more useful in those situations.

What are your gifts, areas and when are your moments? Also, who can you learn from?

Ulrich

A mentor, as stated in other vibes, can really help you narrow down what is making you feel alive and what isn’t. God wants us to feel alive. Many of the desires in us – surfing, poetry, drama, designing, etc are from Him and the more you focus on Christ, the more alive you feel and the more your desires and passions begin to show, making you feel more like you.

Brett

Exactly.

Ulrich

Then just to end off… What are the dangers of ignoring one’s “muchness”? The living dead???

Brett

Yeah, I think if you ignore the “muchness” of who you are and who you were created to be then you will live a mediocre life, which is dead living. If you take the parable of the talents into account you may even be in trouble later… if you don’t use the little you’ve been given you may have it all taken away from you, whereas if you use the little you’ve been given and are faithful with that God is likely to give you more – I have seen that demonstrated in my life again and again – started speaking to an audience of ten and one day I was standing in front of a crowd of 1000…

It’s a love relationship with God and so you want to do whatever you can to bring joy to Him and living out who He has created you to be is a big part of that. So it’s not a legalistic religious thing of earning His love so much as it is a thing of responding to the love He has piled on you already. He has loved me so much that I want to respond by, as I love to say, sucking the marrow out of life – living to the full (John 10:10). Jesus did not come so we could exist or survive, He came so that we would thrive (and what that means in the kingdom of God is helping others reach their potential to thrive!) and live to the full.

Ulrich

Definitely.

Conclusion: live “muchly”

Thanks for the vibe dude. T’was great… Have a frabjous day!

Brett

Live “muchly” in all His “muchness” that He has planted in you! Seek first His kingdom…

The new word is toe-yoda! As in cool – so have a toe-yoda day – spread the word – gonna be big!!!

Bye.

The Only Way to Go: Full-Time Ministry…

[01/09/2010 at 07:13]

Ulrich: Yo! Happy spring dude!

Brett: One sec, kettle on, go for it…

Not authentic if we don’t have some caffeine in here somewhere.

Ulrich: Thanks for making sure we do…

There is always a lot of debate about whether a person who is passionate for God should go into fill time ministry or whether they should still work in the secular industry. Some say working in the secular industry makes you a “part-time Christian…”

Brett: True [laughed the full-time ministryalbanian boy].

The problem lies in the definition of full-time ministry.

Ulrich: I agree – I believe that full-time ministry is devoting your life completely to God. That can be done in many ways…

Brett: Well I think this can probably be filled under the spiritual vs secular divide – think we’ve had that discussion before – how some activities such as attending prayer meetings or a youth group or reading your bible or singing a worship song we call “spiritual”, whereas other activities like going to the beach with friends, watching a movie, playing a game of hockey or kissing your girlfriend/boyfriend we call “secular”.

Ulrich: Like the vibe, “How you are where you are.”

Brett: Whereas we can clearly see from the Bible [e.g. Colossians 3.17 and 23] that God wants to be involved in every part of our lives.

Ulrich: My friend uses a term that I like – “everything is spiritual.”

Brett: So yes, by default everything is spiritual, or should be… If you are a Christian, you are called to fulltime ministry. But we are not ALL called to be paid for it.

That’s a very basic way of summing it up, but you know what I mean – some people will be in official ministry-type positions, such as a pastor, youth worker or in some churches even worship director or whatever… Whereas a teacher is called to be a God-following-surrounded teacher and a plumber the same – make the most of every opportunity to share, display and echo God’s love and kingdom.

A pastor is way more spiritual than a teacher right? I knew a pastor who was quite manipulative and had an affair with one of the married women in the church and on the other side I know a teacher who teaches kids so much about God, both by who she is and what she says (and she teaches a lot of Muslim kids and they’re fine with it because she just radiates it and it is so real) and so in that case suddenly the teacher looks a lot more “spiritual” than the pastor. As you said before – “how you are where you are” – whether you are a pastor or a teacher (or a hip-hop instructor) be a Holy Spirit filled Jesus-loving one, radiate His love and kingdom.

Ulrich: The challenges when working in a Christian environment differ from secular situations, but both have challenges…

Brett Anderson: Yeah and having worked in so-called “Christian environments” most of my life I think sometimes the challenges there are greater – maybe we can do a vibe on the evils of church politics one day…

The point is that we need teachers who are Jesus-loving, we need lawyers who are Jesus-loving… not so sure about drug dealers – I would imagine there are definitely some jobs (not sure that’s a job though) that a Christ-follower is not able to do…

Ulrich: It’s about finding your God-given passions and using them for Him by surrendering to Him and allowing him to place you in, or guide you into WHATEVER place and circumstance.

Brett Anderson: True.

Ulrich: I’m studying law now; it is where I believe (how do I know: peace) I am meant to be. However, that does not confine me to law. God wants you, not a piece of paper. Explanation: although I am studying towards having a legal qualification, I am still able to be used in any type of instance or situation, whether in the legal field or not!  Example – Moses: public speaker according to the world – no;  in and with God – yes.

Brett Anderson: It is important not to lift one of the jobs above another, so that stuff we see as full-time ministry is somehow seen as more important to God, or more holy…

In law you can be a money-grabbing get-to-the-top-of-the-pile lawyer or you can choose to get involved (like my buddy Bren) in cases and litigation linked to trafficking and social justice; using your job for kingdom stuff.

Ulrich: Like I said, I’m studying law, but what if I went into divorce law or had to help someone with divorce papers? I don’t know if I could do that. Some say you can minister to them, which I would by trying to help them, but if they still want a divorce, if that is my job, I would have to do it…

Brett Anderson: I’m not sure there is a have to – same as with a doctor who ‘has to’ perform an abortion – I think there are certain things you will be faced with in certain jobs where walking away from the job (as crazy mad as that sounds) might be the thing to do if there is no way around the compromise you are called to take.

And that is a key question, O-man, if you get faced with such a choice… do you have the faith in God that He will provide for you and make a way?

Ulrich: What about a divorce lawyer or drug dealer who does that type of work to reach Christians…

Brett Anderson: I think I would seriously have to question those and I’m not saying that I have the definitive list on what jobs are okay and what ones are not but I think if you get into that situation and ask God for guidance He will give it and sometimes that will mean walking away from something…

Ulrich: You don’t have a definite list, but the bible offers guidance and if in your Quiet Times (really important) you notice a certain path leading you away from God then you should move away from that job/situation.

Brett Anderson: In summing up I would say that:

[A] We need to stop making a distinction between fulltime ministry and other jobs.

[B] God loves you and wants to be a part of whatever vocation – fancy word for job – you choose to be in. Ask for His guidance when choosing a career but once you have one make sure to include, involve and invite Him to be a part of, and at the centre of, it.

[C] Live the kingdom – so if you are a pastor be a Holy Spirit filled pastor and use every opportunity to serve God by loving Him and loving people, and if you are a supermarket till person then be a Holy Spirit filled supermarket tiller person (start by smiling at people and being friendly) and use every opportunity etc.

[D] There may be a time in your job when you face a situation that may even cause you to walk away from your job so that you can keep your integrity, character and walk with God intact – God will never expect you to compromise on your faith in Him for the sake of keeping a job!

Have a rad day dude, been good vibing, look out for October and November issues of Vision magazine where ‘What’s the Vibe?’ will be featured.

Ulrich: Nice conclusion.

Thanks Brett, been great.

[07:49]

I am Perfect – Gray’s Anatomy

Image via Wikipedia

[24/08/2010 at 06:07]

*** Ulrich:  I read The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde a while ago – really well written book. It is one of those novels –  every sentence is a work of art.  Here is an example:

“Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault. Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope.”

[This extract is from the preface, and that is where the excellence begins! Beat that Stephanie Meyer…]

Now I see they (still not actually sure who “they” are…) are bringing out a movie based on the novel, the movie is titled “Dorian Gray”, to my excitement and horror (movies of books can be extremely disappointing). The movie actually came out a year ago but our cinemas in South Africa decided to put it on hold till now??! The movie will be at Cinema Nouveau Ster-Kinekor theatres from the 3rd of September. I saw a trailer of the movie and unfortunately it looks as though they have made a sordid version… So probably better to read the book (if you are READING this, you must enjoy reading on some level and might as well try the read, like I said, excellent book, would be good to hear what you think). ***

Ulrich: Morning dude!

Brett: Hey man

Ulrich: Have you read The Picture of Dorian Gray?

Brett: I have not, although my wife said she has a copy here so I might pick it up some day. Is that going to be a problem for the vibe?

I do remember him as a character in that awful Sean Connery movie, The League of (underwhelmingly) Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Ulrich: No not at all, you and other vibers reading this have probably not read it so here is a summary:

Dorian Gray is the story of a young guy who has a portrait drawn of himself and says to himself, “Myself, you are so stunning, I wish this portrait could receive the pain and disaster of age and guilt, and that, beautiful I, could stay perfect and youthful forever.” His wish is granted. The rest of the story is about how this seemingly wonderful gift of eternal youth and self-adoration destroys his life and soul.

The book is just an example, not the main point of the vibe.

Brett: How does the portrait receive the age and guilt?

Ulrich: That is the mystery – this portrait that takes sin, age and pain away from Dorian. He always looks innocent and perfect. Besides the magical painting, the rest of the movie is realistic, sort of.

Brett: Ah, pretty much like The Highlander (good Sean Connery movie before your time] or any of the Crylight movies – the eternal person stays forever young and the people (especially “the one”) they meet and love get old and die… And also upcoming Jack Parrow movie – The Quest for the Fountain of Eternal Youth.

Ulrich: The book is just a really good illustration of how vanity and wanting to “stay” or become perfect can destroy your relationships with people, God and yourself. I wonder how many of us would have a portrait suck our age, sin and guilt away from us if we had that option…

Brett: Well the sin and guilt one is easy because we kinda do have that in Jesus, but the age one is a bitter-sweet pill… Because in terms of getting old, sick and painful it would be great, but unless you could get the same for the people you love it would get really lonely. It also removes reality and puts a mask in its place, which a lot of us try to do anyways, and it is always ineffectual.

Ulrich: Yea, wearing a mask is never as good as who you really are. In our youthfulness, it is so easy to fall into the “I am physically perfect or really beautiful and no-one will ever say no to me” – this vanity can keep you away from the awesome plans God has in store for you. What do you think? [If you have a low self-esteem and feel this does not apply to you, read on…]

Brett: The problem with mask wearing, well a problem, is that sooner or later who you are will come through and then it will probably be very disappointing for anyone who has been living with the illusion of the mask.

Ulrich: True, not to mention how difficult it will be for the one who was wearing the mask when they discover that it is impossible to keep the façade going. At some point or another the real you will break free…

Brett: The whole premise of Dorian Gray seems to be illusion, which is the challenge that many people – especially young people – face – especially with advertising and movies and airbrushing and Photoshop, etc – the person you are trying to emulate and copy isn’t even real or possible, so how will you ever pull it off?

Yes, instead of living, your life becomes all about maintaining – the mask, the façade, the secret, whatever it is… You miss out on living and on real relationships. You actually push away all the other non-Dorian Gray people because they don’t measure up to the image you have created.

Ulrich: Totally! I have fallen into that trap and know how great it feels, but also the aftermath of how painful it is to try and get rid of a selfish pride. Realization for the day: none of us are perfect.

Brett: What happens to DG at the end of the book?

Ulrich: Take a guess

Brett: He gets sucked into the picture and becomes a Siamese twin of himself?

Ulrich: Close…ish. He (a “perfect” 20 year old body) looks into the picture holding his sins (visible on the portrait) and age (about 70). He loves and hates it. He stabs the portrait. But… by destroying the portrait, he destroys himself. The next scene is an image of an old man lying on the ground with a dagger in his heart…

Brett: Oh wow, very Hollywood.

Ulrich: But that was written in the late 1800’s…

It makes sense, he became so wrapped up in being perfect that without his perfection, he loses all that is left of him, and dies – the danger of vanity and pride can eventually destroy the person God made us to be.

Brett: Well interestingly enough there is a story about a picture in the Bible… and by picture I mean a mirror…

Ulrich: Really? Which one?

Brett: James 1:22-25: “Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in the mirror and then after looking at himself he immediately goes away and forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard but doing it – he will be blessed in what he does.”

I think the point is that as mankind, we were created perfect but sin has come in and destroyed that and made us less than who we were created to be. The point now, is us being made back into who we were created to be by being in relationship with Christ and letting Him – and not a picture – deal with our sin, guilt and everything that makes us less than perfect.

Ulrich: Great and powerful words of truth. Did you struggle with vanity/pride?

Brett: Vanity not so much, I don’t think – I’ve never been one of the hot guys (although maybe now because my wife finds me hot and tells me that a lot of the time – I struggle to believe her but I think she really means it – maybe love makes us find the object of our love hot?) but pride is something I think we all struggle with on different levels… So yes definitely.

Pride in wanting to be liked and accepted, and for people to think what I say or do is really important… When I actually should just try to be obedient to what God has called me to, and only seek His approval.

Ulrich: The sad thing is that your pride can even fool you into believing that you are not looking for acceptance, when that is what you are looking for…

How would you say one should guard against pride?

Brett: Keep looking in the mirror – if you see Ulrich looking back then you might be in trouble – if you see Jesus looking back then you’re doing fine – it’s all about measuring ourselves to scripture and living a life that follows Jesus and reflects Him, not our sinful nature.

Ulrich: Just a note… Pride is not denying your abilities… but rather given God the glory for what you do and who you are.

Brett: I think having good “accountability people” in your life (people who you give permission to wound you – see Proverbs 27:6 , “wounds from a friend can be trusted but an enemy multiplies kisses”) who can point out when you are getting a bit prideful, that is a good start.

Also, having a God centered life is the key – so inviting God every day to take ownership or leadership of your life.

The key thing is that when you allow Jesus in He doesn’t just completely take over and create another Jesus-looking clone but when Ulrich invites Him in He takes who Ulrich is and enhances and purifies him, and creates the best image of Ulrich possible. And with Brett it’s the best image of Brett possible. So like the one ad for body cream says “you, only better.”

Ulrich: I had coffee with Arnold Mol the other day and he said that denying your abilities is just another form of pride, so if someone says, “wow, Brett, you are a really good speaker”, and you say, “No not really” then you are not being modest, but rather displaying a type of pride…

Brett: It’s what you call false humility and either occurs because your self-image is too low – which is sin – or because you are full of pride and saying it to get the response, “no really you’re an amazing speaker.”

Ulrich: You’re a great speaker Brett.

Brett: Thanks man.

Ulrich: It can be really hard to admit that you have a low self-esteem, or too much of one. Maybe a mentor is a good start, like you already mentioned.

Brett: It took me a long time to know how to respond to that, because obviously when I speak I want to be the best I can be, but I also want to be humble. So when someone came up and complemented me, the temptation would be to go “nah it’s all God” and then the person would inevitably reply “dude, if it was all God it would have been SO MUCH BETTER” and so the correct response is a simple thank you.

If we start to understand how God views us and what He has done for us, then it is difficult to remain in a place of low self-image, how can I? I am the child of the King.

But what that also means is that compared to the King, I am nothing. Being the child of the King should give one a great self-image, but it remains all about God and His kingdom… He has to always stay the center of our lives.

Ulrich: Definitely true. Otherwise the sinking begins (Matthew 14:30)…

Brett: To sum up…

The point is to embrace who you are in terms of growing old, and celebrate with those who grow old around you – don’t try to be something you are not – but when it comes to sin and guilt we have Someone who has offered to deal with that on our behalf, Jesus, and really much more equipped than we are to do so anyways. The living of a Christ-following life is all about realising who He is and who we are, and especially who we are in Him, and then living out our reality as a son or daughter of the King with all the privileges and gifts that it carries. While always seeing ourselves in relation to the king, so insignificant compared to Him, but made significant by Him – so living a God-centered life and inviting Him to come and live in and through us so that we can be the “best me” we have been created to be.

Ulrich: Thanks man, have a great day living in and for Christ.

Brett: Cool man, you too.

[06:52]

God Must Hate Me – Part 1

[24/06/2010 at 8:49 AM]
Brett:

Hey fellow vibing buddy – so quite a hectic title we got going, what’s it all about?

Ulrich:

Hey, yea, pretty deep. I have noticed that many people are struggling with understanding how God can be connected to them, close to them, when He ‘let’s’ such hard and difficult things happen…

***I will ask the questions I have noticed people struggling with…***

Why does God assume the role of the distant one…?

Brett:

I think your question could be better stated; “does God assume the role of the distant one?” – never good to start with an assumption that might be flawed, but then again, isn’t that how most of us see God? – with flawed trying-to-understand-this-eternal-all-powerful-being with my miniscule-in-comparison brain… I can’t even really understand how a toaster works, so how am I supposed to “get” God?

I would think the answer is yes, and no…

Does God assume the role of the distant One? I think Jesus is a huge resounding NO to that question – Jesus is God coming near – one of His names is Emmanuel, which literally means “God with us.”

Ulrich:

Does the distant side of God then exist so that we can experience freedom?

Brett:

Philippians 2 puts it well – “your attitude should be the same as that of Jesus Christ, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient to death, even death on a cross.”

God identifies with the suffering and separation of man by coming close, firstly as Jesus and then by His Spirit, which after Jesus left, comes and lives in His followers – you don’t get much closer than that.

On the “no” side I would have to say that these days it does seem a little bit like the 400 year period between Old and New testament, a lot of the time where God is silent and we are left to fend for ourselves – but I do think that comes about when we lose sight of His Spirit in us. So I understand the feeling and experience it myself a lot from time to time, but I don’t think it’s valid.

Ulrich:

So we can never fully understand God. We must live through faith, that’s already hard but if it stopped there, that would be great… Why the suffering when I live for God? What did I do that was so wrong…?!

Brett:

Well I think that goes back to the fall of man, and sin entering the world – remember the 4 relationships we spoke about in a previous vibe – between God and man, between man and the family, between man and man (mankind) and between man and nature – all four were completely disrupted when sin broke into the world.

Ulrich:

So God is with us but temps us or hurts us to see if we believe Him? Seems like He must hate me…

Brett:

When I am suffering it can be for a variety of reasons:

[1] God is hurting me

[2] Man is hurting me or sin or the consequences of sin

[3] The devil, our very real enemy who roams around like a roaring lion wanting to devour, is hurting me

And most of the time it’s number 2 and 3, but the question we are asking is about 1 – does God hurt us?

Ulrich:

Yes.

Brett:

And I’d love to say no – but there are verses that say “the rain falls on the Godly and the ungodly”. What that means is that basically because we live in a fallen world, and because God is not our guardian angel protecting us and keeping us out of every troublesome situation, and stopping us from stubbing our toes etc, that we will be hit by the consequences of daily life as much as the next person. Generally I would say that – sin happens – not by itself, usually with our or someone else’s help – well always actually – for example drunk driver kills my friend – why didn’t God prevent it? Would have meant affecting drunk driver’s free will – and none of us wants our free will taken away…

Ulrich:

But why??? He could stop it… So then it is Him who is hurting us.

Brett:

If we get the free will package (and I’m not sure that’s completely cut and dry because God definitely intervenes, but for the most part it seems like we have a considerable amount of the stuff) then we have to take the hurt and disappointed part that goes with it.

Jesus never says follow Me and everything will go well with you – quite the opposite in fact – on a number of occasions He talks about how following Him means dying (Luke 9:23) and being hated and persecuted (Matthew 5) and so on.

I think one of the problems with this question is that we like to live in a me-centered world where everything revolves around me, and so we put God into that picture and get the warped idea that He is all about making my life happy, comfortable and prayer of Jabezzy when it is not like that at all. We are merely in this great big unfolding drama where the main character is God… We really need to get that.

Anyways I said earlier I’d like to say God never gets involved in terms of bringing pain etc, but then I think of the story of Job and we’re not entirely sure whether it is a true story or an allegory to show us stuff about God, but I like to think of it as a true story. Either way I think the same points come across so it really doesn’t matter too much – and you should go read it – only what, 41 chapters? Nothing on a Harry Pothead novel…

Ulrich:

Ok, but does God not have the power to stop the hurt?

The story of Job – very hard but good book to read.

Brett Anderson:

The story of Job is God directly getting involved, or at least being a bystander in the pain being inflicted on one of His followers and choosing not to intervene or stop the devil. All as a test or contest to show how good a follower Job is.

Look at Job’s response to his wife who says he should curse God when tragedy strikes – and at least read chapters 1 to 3 if you’re not going to manage the whole story.

Ulrich:

But why would God make a contest out of us, that seems slightly mean…

Brett:

At the first sign of tragedy Job’s response is – “naked I came from my mother’s womb and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.”

The second time, when his wife is urging him to curse God he responds with – “you are talking foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God and not trouble?” I think that holds the crux.

Wow, I don’t even think we’ve drawn blood on this topic yet and we’re already quite into it – I don’t for a second think we have come close to answering your friends questions but I think it is important to cover this stuff first as it provides decent context.

What I do think – reading through Psalms for example – is that God wants us to be real with Him and to approach Him – and so more important than “does the bad stuff come from God or not?” is the question of “when bad stuff strikes, what is my response?” Do I run towards God or away from Him?

Ulrich:

From my experience, even though spilling it all to God can be freaking hard, it is totally worth it. Being real is all that is required of us.

Brett:

When tragedy strikes and you are filled with questions, make sure you end up at God’s feet or at the foot of the cross asking them there – remember that when Jesus died, He carried all the hurt, pain and wrongdoing. So whatever is hurting you now, He gets it and has already dealt with it and it cost Him His life here on earth so try factor that in, get real before Him and ask the “why?” and the “what now?” and the “where are you?”

Psalm 34.18 reminds us that even if our heart has been broken, or our spirit crushed (two lowest points you can get to in life I believe) God is there, He gets it and knows, and…
It hurts Him.

Ulrich:

You said, a better question is, “when bad stuff strikes…” but what I want to know is does it come from God, if yes, why, if no, why not stop it?

Brett:

Well as I said a lot of the time it comes from sin (whether ours or someone else’s, whether immediate or down the line somewhere) and also I believe from the devil doing what he does worst… but also that God is sovereign (the message of Job) and so He can do bad stuff or at the very least allow it – I think generally He lets it happen cos stopping it will mean removing someone’s free will and part of the suffering and pain we face is because of sin entering into the world, and so we live in a fallen world and are subject to fallen broken stuff…

Does He cause it? If He ever does then it will be with His greater glory in mind – Romans 8.28 talks about how God uses all things for good which means that even when bad stuff happens God can work in the situation to bring good – I also think that our perspective of what is bad differs from God’s – so us losing a job, for example, might not be as big to God as the character and growth He wants to instil in us in that time of us not having a job.

It does say that God can’t tempt or be tempted and that He will never allow us to be in a situation that will overwhelm us and so we always have to believe that He has our back, whatever the circumstance.

Ulrich:

1 Corinthians 10:13 – what a comforting verse.

But how much free will do we need before we can see he is sovereign. Can’t He show us through love instead of pain?

This is quite a hectic one for an innocent Thursday morning…

Brett:

It’s the whole two sets of footprints on the beach thing – why in the toughest times are there just one set of prints? Didn’t you know, it was in those times that God carried you – isn’t difficulty, hardship and pain an opportunity for God to demonstrate just how much He loves us?… If we never had it, would we truly know or understand…

Thursdays are never innocent my friend – give them one unwatched moment and they will transform into a Friday in the blink of an eye.

Cheers buddy – go strong!

Ulrich:

Bye bye

***To be continued***

[9: 43 AM]

[To vibers: please feel free to comment.]

How you are where you are

Image via Wikipedia

[09/06/2010 at 07:32 AM]

Ulrich: So Brett, what are you doing these holidays?

Brett: I’m actually going up to Namibia for Namrock worship weekend. I will also do some road tripping with my lovely wife and two friends of ours.

Ulrich: Sounds great, I am sure Namrock will be amazing!

Brett: Yeah can’t wait

Ulrich: Are you watching any of the Soccer World Cup matches?

Brett: Yeah on Friday a few of us are going to be heading into the K (Kayamandi township where I used to live) to catch the opening game. I’m not actually going to any of the games but definitely going to vibe SA style, how about you?

Ulrich: Great! I want to go to Soweto to watch a game there…

I am going to the Brazil v North Korea match…

Brett: Oh wow what a game, very nice. I kinda woke up a little late on the organising tickets thing, but will be supporting SA, I’m sure we can do it…

Ulrich: Oh well, there are many other ways to watch the soccer or spend one’s time these holidays. That brings me to the question: how to keep God the focus during the world cup/holidays… Many of us vibers have just come through a crazy time of exams or work where it is not so hard to realise that you need God… but what about now, when all seems to be going well… Any practical tips?

Brett: Yeah holidays can often be a time when people move away from God or attempt to kind of float along in neutral (which is actually impossible). So one of the solutions is creating a structure – for time with God, intentional hanging, worship, bible reading – it’s a relationship, so if you are not moving towards God you are moving away from Him and the way you will notice this first is probably getting caught up in temptations and sins that you would normally not struggle with. As with most things, be intentional.

Ulrich: Quiet times can become difficult, how about a suggestion of making a specific time in the day to have a quiet time, now that there is no structure…. Or, making a quiet time the first thing you do before you start “Ayobaing”…

Brett: Yeah exactly – it’s the big irony that now that you have more time you tend to spend less time with God – so maybe choosing to make the first thing you do when you get up time with God – or at least finding some specific time – will be a really good idea.

Ulrich: You mentioned intentional worship time, but worship can be using any of your gifts for God right? So how about taking time out to write/play music, do sport, just hang – dedicate that time/practice totally to God. Actually, how about dedicating your whole life to Christ…

Brett: Yeah it’s a focus and a lifestyle and exactly what you have just said – the holidays should actually free us up to do that stuff we just don’t find to time to do in the term time. It’s also the whole secular vs. spiritual discussion we’ve had a few times so we’re not talking about 8 hour quiet times but being intentional to bring God into or see God in everything you are doing whether watching soccer with friends or hanging out with church or whatever. It is how you are where you are – as a Christ follower have an absolute party, but don’t get drunk at the match kind of thing.

Ulrich: I find I get really busy in the holidays, hanging with friends, jumping with kids at holiday clubs, vibing and so on but… Many of the times my alone time with Jesus slips… Don’t you think sometimes we need to watch what activities we get involved in, they may seem good, but are actually not right for us where we are at…

Brett: We can get too busy, even with God stuff, again it’s about being intentional and planning beforehand and making sure we are energized and powered up to do the stuff we’re going to – we see how Jesus drew strength from time in prayer, going all night up the mountain, or moving to a quiet place to pray.

Ulrich: How you are where you are… yes!

Brett: Also, whom you are where you are – if you are a Jesus-follower at home and church then be one at the game and when you hang out with your friends as well.

Ulrich: Where is the story of Mary and Martha again… That would be a good story to read just to gain perspective…

Brett: I think it’s in the Bible Oreo

Ulrich: Thanks…

Brett: Luke 10.38-42 more specifically

Ulrich: Say you and I chill a lot in the holidays, and you are trying to keep God-focused and I’m being a mad munchkin doing all kinds of things which just don’t match up to the life I should be living, should you talk to me about it? As a friend, how do you go about that?

Brett: Yeah I think accountability is huge – the verse from proverbs “wounds from a friend can be trusted but an enemy multiplies kisses” is apt – if we really care about our friends then we will challenge them when they step out of line, as long as it is done in love which is sometimes a hard one to get right.

Ulrich: Yes, how do you get that right? Could it be possible that you are not the right friend to chat to me about that topic?

Brett: Just pull them aside and chat to them, be loving – if you have a good relationship with them it should be easier – in fact at the start of the holidays it might be a good idea to specifically seek out a strong Christ following friend of yours and choose to hold each other accountable so make the deal beforehand. It is good to head into the holidays knowing that someone who loves you has your back.

Ulrich: What about if you are going away with your family and you know you are going to struggle because you are the only Christian, etc.

Brett: Well then you are probably accessible on sms or mxit or something and can stay in touch with someone back home.

Ulrich: Mmm, that can still be hard… Accountability partners/friends only work if you are able to account in the tougher times…

Brett: Yeah totally, you just need to get creative and use what is available – I guess in that situation when you are cut off from people who could help then you could use a journal daily to kind of help keep yourself accountable, but maybe still have someone at home who is intentionally praying for you.

Ulrich: Ok, so share about future struggles you can see yourself having. Also, if you are intentionally quiet timing, your focus, even if a slow change, will start to become different.

Brett: Yeah identify your weakness and likely stumbling spots before hand and it will be easier to avoid those. [For those of you who have not been reading your bibles, why not pick a book to study for the holidays and read a chapter a day and meditate on it and what God is trying to say to you.]

Ulrich: If some vibers are looking for a new quiet time in the holidays, what Bible books/chapters could be cool options?

Brett: Maybe one of the shorter letters like Philippians or Ephesians and maybe one of the gospels as well – Matthew, Mark, Luke, John – get to know the story of Jesus again – be reminded of how He lived. Romans 12 is an amazing chapter though.

Ulrich: 1 Peter is also cool…

Brett: Yeah totally

Ulrich: Also, if you don’t really read the Bible, a good place to start would be Matthew.

Brett: Yea.

Ulrich: Enjoy the Soccer on Friday dude, WAKA WAKA!

Brett: Go South Africa! Cheers.

[08:16 AM]

Yoking

How is this for an illustration?

[20/03/2010 at 08:04 AM]

Ulrich: Hey Brett.

Brett: Hey man.

Ulrich: Love.

Brett: Love?

Ulrich: Yes, love.

Brett: “All you need is.” dum dum ddah dah dum.

Ulrich:  “Love, love, love!”

Brett:  Although sometimes it does feel like you have to queue to get love

I highly recommend it!

Ulrich: Should a non-Christian date a Christian?

Brett:  I guess a non-Christian can date a Christian… It’s possible, mathematically speaking… should a Christ-follower date someone who is not? Absolutely, emphatically not!

Ulrich:  Ok, let us discuss… He says; “I love you more than anything.” She says; “I love Jesus more than anything.”

Brett: Let me interject right at the beginning… I have heard this one a LOT of times – every camp I speak on, anytime we do a talk on relationships or a Q and A, is it okay for Christians to date non-Christians and let me give you a clue to the answer – the people asking the question, in my experience, are always dating non-Christians or wanting to, or know a good friend who is… I have never heard of someone who is strong in their faith, and who has no wish to date someone who is non-Christian, arguing that it’s a good idea as an isolated topic – it’s always a question with intent so to speak. Let’s hit it head on because a lot of people are wishy-washy in their answers or opinions to the question and mine was pretty emphatic which I believe is true – I think a reasonable understanding of the Bible and the plan of God for your life will leave you without a shadow of a doubt that it is wrong. A lot of people will quote 2 Corinthians 6.14 which talks about not being yoked together with unbelievers as the definitive Scripture. I do think that is a verse that speaks into it. Yoking being a farming analogy where they would stick two big man cows into this heavy wooden frame which would keep them walking in the same direction to harness their power for ploughing etc. In verse 17 it goes on to say “come out from them and be separate.” This is more the bit I want to focus on. From the beginning God calls Israel and says “I want you to be different from the rest of the world and reflect my glory” – He warns them against becoming intimate in relationships with people from other tribes and one can see again and again, as Israel disobeyed and intermarried etc, that they turned away from God and ended up following other gods. Traditionally (maybe because more girls are Christians?) it is the girl who is a Christian and the guy who is not (although it definitely can happen the other way around). More often than not (there are exceptions but very few and far between) it is the Christian who moves away from God.

Ulrich:  Is this always the case? Do relationships where they are, to use the expression, “unequally yolked” never work? Have you met a couple where this has worked?

Brett:  There are cases where they have worked, but I really think it is a case of God working good in a bad situation (a sinful one I would say) as opposed to God instigating it (for the most part – I mean God told one of his prophets to marry a prostitute to make a point in the Old Testament, so God has the freedom to lead someone on a different path). I met a couple from England. The woman was a Christian and he was not when they met. They dated and got married and on their journey, I can’t remember when it happened, he became a Christian and they believed it was right but I’m not so sure – it may have been in their case… but again I’m not so sure it wasn’t just God working despite disobedience as opposed to Him leading something.

Ulrich:  I believe God can work in all situations… but we should still be careful.

Brett:  I think we need to understand why dating a non believer is wrong and unhealthy (for both sides actually) as opposed to saying it’s just not the best of ideas… People who want to be in a relationship always manage to hear God “pushing them into it” if they are desperately wanting it, and it just may not be God! Let’s talk about the “why” a bit. What do you think?

Ulrich:  Why is it wrong? I’d say because they do not have the same centre point. God and doing his works will be the centre of the one’s life, but not of the other’s life. A conflict of interests is created… The conflict can make it difficult for the believer to go to church, have quiet times, etc. This pulls the believer’s focus away from God.

Brett:  It also pulls their focus away from each other and so the relationship will always be strained – the non believer doesn’t quite “get” what the believer’s primary passion and thrill in life is – this will breed frustration and possibly resentment.

Ulrich: So dating and marriage, in the worldly sense of these concepts, are seen as very different relationships that don’t necessarily lead into the other. What I’m saying: is it ok to date a non Christ follower but just not marry him/her?

Brett:  For me, dating should always be pointing to marriage – not saying that we will marry everyone we date (please no) but the purpose of dating is to see whether this is the type of person we will marry one day. If I am dating a non-Christian, then for me, God is the most important thing in my life and for her it will be something else – might be herself or me or popularity or money or whatever – but what it means is that we cannot, as a couple, share the thing that is most important to us – how sad is that? Just seems retarded for both the Christ follower and the non believer. This is also very destructive…

Ulrich:  Yes I agree.

Brett: Then, like you said, the biggest danger is that the Christ follower is pulled away from their first love which should be Jesus. It is always easier to pull someone away from something they believe, than to get someone to believe something new. The old analogy of a person on a table explains this – it is easier for the person on the ground to pull them down (assisted by gravity) than it is for the person on the table to pull the person up (fighting against gravity) and so generally the person falls.

Ulrich: It is fairly retarded but still something many of us struggle with. For the couple already in a relationship like this, what would you advise them to do? Break up?

Brett:  Break up.

Ulrich: What about conversion?? It is dangerous to try to convert a person you are dating!

Brett: You know, we even have a title for it – missionary dating – I am going to date this person to lead them to Jesus – and you know what? The premise is flawed. What is the main difference between being someone’s friend and dating them? The physical stuff right? I have never heard of anyone who has been brought closer to Jesus through saliva. So if you are being genuine about leading them to Jesus (which should be priority one, well loving them should be priority one) then you can do that as a friend and there will be less distraction as well because the physical stuff (and some of the other stuff in relationships) can really distract.

Ulrich: Very true

Brett:  I don’t think it’s a genuine argument to be honest – I think it’s a cop-out or an excuse – someone trying to cover up disobedience.

Ulrich:  What if the Christian genuinely does not care that they are dating a person who does not share their faith? Is this a personal conviction or a “black or white”/”right or wrong” issue?

Brett:  If a person genuinely does not care that they are dating a person who does not share their faith then apart from all the healthy/unhealthy stuff we’ve spoken of, they have serious obedience issues (unless by reading Scripture they absolutely believe God says it is ok which I don’t think they’ll find) and then are they following Jesus and is He Lord?

Ulrich:  If the Christian does not date the non-believer, does it not give the impression of “I’m better than you and I can’t date you because you are not saved like me”, making the unbeliever feel the Christian is superior to him/her? This argument is used a lot.

Brett:  Well if it’s how they feel you can’t really change that but I guess a lot of it will be in the way it comes across – if you explain to them that it’s not about being better but it’s about being true to the most important person in your life, Jesus, they may not fully understand, and probably wont, but they will more than likely respect that (and if they don’t then they are not the kind of person you would want to be dating anyways). They must feel loved but they must know that God is first in your life and one shouldn’t come across as arrogant or better because you’re not and it’s not about that – it’s not about them being a horrible person, it’s about you needing to be with someone who is in love with the same God you are. Matthew 22 says something about Love the Lord your God with ALL YOUR HEART, it has to start there.

Ulrich: If you come across as arrogant, then you are more about religion than a relationship with Christ.

Brett:  Absolutely on the religion thing. Just diving back to right at the beginning, too often I have seen girls enter into a relationship with a guy who is not a Christian with the intention of leading him to Jesus, being completely genuine about that, but have watched them move away from God and rarely seen it work the other way around.

Ulrich:  Rarely… So possibility exists that it can work? Obviously yes because God can work in and through any situation BUT… Don’t go looking for it. Although I suppose you don’t always look for it…

Brett:  Not even “don’t go looking for it” – hear the strong words – stay away – don’t do it – avoid at all costs – run away – hasta la vista baby!

Ulrich:  If you want to date a non-believer and you are a Christ follower, what should you do?

Brett:  If you are attracted to someone who doesn’t know Jesus, then the most important thing for the person that you like, in order for them to be in the best possible place (which is what you’d want, right?) would not be for them to go out with you but for them to meet with God. Instead of selfishly chasing the relationship with them (getting your needs satisfied), chase their biggest need and pray for them. Invite them to church, youth, watch a Louie Giglio or Rob Bell DVD and just completely love them (outside of a dating relationship) so that they can encounter Jesus. There is a better way – for you and for them – and if you have fallen for someone who is not in relationship with God then just know God has better for you (and again we not talking about a better person but a person who is more right, and will be better in the relationship).

Ulrich:  Ok, so if you, a Christian, are in the relationship with someone who does not share your faith, break up?

Brett:  I would highly encourage it – it is really tricky for someone who is already in relationship but again you are benefiting your relationship with God by being in the right place – you know what, here’s my advice, genuinely ask God. God should I break up with this guy/girl or should I stay in the relationship… Do WHATEVER He says and honestly listen for His voice not your heart. One other cool story – a lady in my dad’s church became a Christian after she was married and so you end up with a Christian and a non-Christian married with kids (in fact God gives counsel on this in the Bible and says it’s your choice but stay together if you can) and she stayed with him and basically loved him into the kingdom and it took years but he watched her and saw the difference and couldn’t help noticing the lack in his own life. BUT again that’s the exception, and not cause to go oh well let me be in relationship with a non-Christian because the same might happen to me – but it’s possible for those who may already be in relationship that God may say, “you know what carry on, love this guy/girl, show them something higher, lead them to Me.”

Ulrich:  What about two people from different denominations, e.g. a Catholic and a Baptist? For certain families’ religious views (due to tradition), it is a disaster if their child does not marry/date a person from the same denomination and church as them. BUT in terms of a relationship with Christ, if he is the centre of both your lives, then denomination is irrelevant!

Brett:  I don’t think your denomination matters (at all really, not even just within this topic, as long as it’s Biblically based and open to the Holy Spirit etc) although if you are involved in different local churches that might be hard to manage. One of the key things within a relationship – which does relate to this topic – is values – and so I would say avoid entering a relationship with someone with strongly differing values to you. There could be cases where denominations lead to that. Your relationship will be formed around shared values (so number one value is the relationship each of you have with Jesus) and the core values of who you are need to be close – in terms of the practices (things you do) they are not as important but values; definitely. If it is a core value, it will cause friction.

Ulrich: Will it definitely end in divorce?

Brett:  Yeesh hectic statement Oreo, God can work good in all things and if there is a couple together already with very different core values God can definitely work in that and it doesn’t have to go there – I’m talking more from the perspective of choosing someone to date and later marry – sharing similar core values is a good way of seeing how the relationship will go. God hates divorce but loves divorced people just as much as married and single people.

Ulrich:  Last question on this topic…What if the guy is a one day old Christian and the girl has been a Christ follower for 10 years?

Brett:  Yeah that’s an interesting question and I’m not sure there is a hard and fast rule – definitely not as black and white as a Christ follower and unbeliever, but I would imagine the difference in spiritual maturity could become an issue – there is a Biblical principle of the man leading in a relationship which I know will get a lot of women up in arms although it is in the Bible so how we work around that one is a different story. I think whether it’s the guy or girl the difference in spiritual understanding/maturity etc could become something that distracts or trips up because they are in different places needing different things – but it totally doesn’t have to.

Ulrich:  It can work as long as both are first focussed on Christ.

Brett:  The basis of any relationship between Christ followers should be that, so yes. I would encourage the couple to think about it and pray and ask people who know them both whether it’s a good idea and then act on the advice and leading from God, but I would not have any problem with that. They might need to get their teaching and growth from different sources but they can both encourage each other in the different places they are at – the young Christian sees things from a fresh perspective and so may have a lot to teach the older one and the older one hopefully has greater experience and can help direct and lead and share experiences – so win/win.

Ulrich:  Yes win/win!

Brett:  I am married to the beautiful Val and it is amazing that the most important thing to her is the most important thing to me which is God and our relationship with Him – it brings us closer together and it is the centre for everything else – so our relationship flows from a mutual place which is incredible whereas if you have a different core value, whatever it is, it can only push you apart and be a source of friction – you would have to be an idiot to choose that for yourself and another person, the end.

[08:55 AM]

Kill the Witch – Part 2

[02/03/2010 at 05:22:58 AM]

Ulrich: It seems to me that the topic of fantasy annoys many. When I told people what we were speaking about reactions included a sigh, and then they would say “oh, let me guess you can’t watch anything right?”

Brett: In a lot of arenas Christianity has managed to get (earn?) this reputation of being about a bunch of stuff we can’t do. Sadly people who call themselves Christians often earn the label of “what we’re against” by having a greater focus on that than the love we are called to be recognised by. I think as a follower of Jesus there are definitely things we will choose not to do but I would rather be known by what I’m for than what I’m against. There is no verse in the Bible that says “thou shalt not watch Harry Potter, yet thou canst have a look at Stuart Little” so you really have to be led by the Holy Spirit in terms of what is wise to fill your mind with and what is not.

Ulrich: True, much better to be known for what one’s for. Duncan Reyburn’s response was really interesting; he brought up three key points which we also touched on in part 1. He first said that “In a world that is obsessed with fantasy both in literature and in film, it would be foolish (possibly irresponsible) for Christians not to engage with what these fantasy stories tell us.” He then went on to say that this culture can be viewed through watching things like Twilight – showing the greed and depression that surrounds us. He also related fantasy to parables – very true.

Brett: I definitely think we can take a lot of the movies in pop culture today and use them to speak truth into people’s lives because it is what people relate to – Jesus was brilliant in taking an every day situation and linking it to the kingdom of heaven. The Matrix is a classic example – it contains a whole lot of different religious ideas from different religions and beliefs and so some Christians stay clear of it but I see a lot of accessible truth and use it often to convey truth about being a Jesus follower.

Ulrich: I feel the same. Ok, new question stemming from this media issue… How do we control music we listen to? It is a struggle for me.

Brett: How do we control music we listen to?  Use the remote if you have one… or there is a little volume icon at the bottom in the toolbar… What do you mean?

Ulrich: Well, where do we draw the line with what we listen to? I chatted about this with people and found that many are fine with listening to the music and ignoring the words… I can’t seem to do that but I still listen to some music which I sometimes wonder about…

Brett: I think the starting point – as with movies – is being aware of what we’re listening to – a lot of people “just listen to music” and are unaware of the messages and maybe even the effect of some of the music they are listening to – I think that is just irresponsible.

Ulrich: I suppose it’s similar to you listening to Eddie Izzard (a comedian)…

Brett: I think if there is a type of music that always ends up with you feeling depressed after you listen to it (music affects mood for sure) then you have to ask yourself is this the best thing for me – is it healthy?

Ulrich: True, funny thing is some Christian music has made me feel more depressed than secular music??? Disclaimer: I am not saying that every song has to make you feel as if you want to jump through a daisy field…

Brett: Yes Ulrich, don’t jump through daisy fields… Are you talking Casting Crowns because they had that effect on me? One of the key things about content is how it affects your relationship with God – if for example there was a band singing a song with the line “Valerie Anderson (my wife) is a fat wench” and I listened to it repeatedly, that would show a complete lack of respect and love for the beautiful Valerie which would be awful – and yet a lot of people listen to music directly against God, or else more often promoting things God is strongly against!

Ulrich: Was not Casting Crowns for me, was a band called foolish things. I remember that from last time – TbV (your wife) example. It’s a very good illustration.

Brett: Yeah I think we have to be careful with so-called Christian bands as well – with anything we listen to or watch we need to be aware of what it’s about – to say I just listen to the music and not the lyrics of songs that promote suicide or a lot of rap music which speaks about women in a degrading way is just ignorance and definitely needs some thought. In fact if you have to pick a genre worth being extra careful about it would be rap and more specifically “gangsta” rap – some of the lyrics are completely offensive and by listening to the music you are endorsing the product and the message of the band actually.

Ulrich: Then what about Mr Eddie (Eddie Izzard – a comedian). He is super funny and I love his stuff but some times he does get into a bit of blasphemy. Not cool.

Brett: Well I just bought the Eddie Izzard box set and apparently on the one DVD he does get a bit blasphemous but I have not watched that one yet and am honestly a bit nervous to but I will and will make a call when I hear it – it is not cool and I will definitely have to re-evaluate what I think of him – however one of the reasons I like Eddie Izzard is that he is generally really clean in terms of his content and so I have not experienced anything with him (yet) which has caused warning bells to go on. He does swear a bit but for me swearing is contextual and for some reason I find British swearing a lot less offensive than American swearing and so it doesn’t bother me as much (start the angry emails).

Ulrich: I agree there is something funny about British humour – maybe it’s the fact that they focus on ACTING instead of trying to look good which is what the Americans do – promoting their image over the movie.

Brett: Going back to Eddie Izzard, he has dealt with a lot of Christian related themes in the stuff I have listened to already but a lot of it is really clever and makes some valid points about Christians – some of the bad stuff we do or some of the extremes we go to, so I have heard stuff that some people might have viewed as blasphemous which is actually true and satirical and actually maybe a wake up call of “hey wait a minute, that’s true – we are like that and we should change.” So like I said, the day I hear some stuff that is blasphemous I will definitely need to re-evaluate and maybe not listen to him any more at all, but so far that has not happened in my experience, but because people have said it is I need to be cautious and watch out for it. I think maybe swearing is something we can address one day on “What’s the Vibe?” because I have some interesting thoughts on that – I don’t think it’s just about the words and so Eddie Izzard can say the F word and actually I don’t think he is swearing and then a Christian can say “oh bucket” or “frikkin” or whatever and it can be complete swearing – a lot of it is context and motivation and yeah I think that could prove an interesting discussion.

Ulrich: Definitely! We will do that! Ok, so if you do find a blasphemous section does that mean you have to stop listening to all of his stuff? What about the clean videos? I have also come to new understandings through watching some of his performances.

Brett: Yeah that’s a tough question… a lot of people say that about music “I just don’t listen to the swearing” or “I skip that song…” I don’t think it’s a good enough answer and I think a lot of Christians use it as a cop out. I just mentioned Cat-Sing Crowns earlier because I totally killed them – I was one of the first to discover them in this country thanks to a link with a music company who brought them in and so absolutely loved them and played them to death and now I can’t listen to them at all – so nothing personal – they still have some good songs though.

Ulrich: They do still have some really good songs. Don’t worry there are no angry mobs around…

Brett: Back to your question… Goes back to the Valerie example – if someone writes a song slating my wife then I don’t think I’d be super amped to listen to any of their other songs no matter how good they are and I don’t think it shows enough respect to Valerie to condone or appreciate the rest of the music and not take it seriously that this person has attacked someone I love. I am nervous about getting to that DVD which I think is the next one we’ll be watching, because if he, Eddie, is hectically blasphemous then I will definitely have to re-evaluate whether he is worth listening to at all because I love God more than anything in life and I can definitely miss out on some humour to uplift my relationship with God.

Ulrich: So what about almost all party music? “Yea let’s get down and dirty”?????? … What about rock bands that just hate the world? And Queen? I really like that band. Er, I wasn’t asking you to “get down” by the way…

Brett: Well I hope you were not saying that to me because I have not gotten DIRTY for a long time now… again that’s a choice we need to make led by the Holy Spirit. The problem is most Christians don’t ask that question about any of the rubbish they put into our minds.

Ulrich: Another point – what is interesting is the more you get into God’s word the less important the things of the world become. I have really found this to be true, especially lately.

Brett: Queen is a tough one because I like a lot of their music, but watching Freddie mercury in a dress vacuuming his lounge or something in the one video just did something to me and has constantly shaped my opinion of the band so I only enjoy their music when I hear it on the radio kind of thing because it’s a constant weird question in my head – not saying it’s bad to listen to them or good but for me it was something that was just weird – but if we stop listening to music of any bands that contain sinners in them we’ll be in trouble. I think the key element here linked to what you just said which is that God is actively involved in our life and He guides us – the Holy Spirit is there for that reason and so why not make use of Him?

Ulrich: Totally. God is bigger than the witch, period.

Brett: Don’t kill the witch as in head down the street with an angry mob and a firebrand and set fire to anyone, BUT maybe there is some stuff in your and my lives that we need to be a bit more lethal over – not because we are wanting to be known by what we are against but because what and WHO we are for is important to us, more than our entertainment. Ask the question? God is this music okay? God is it okay for me to watch Harry Potter or Twilight or Horror Movies or anything with Sarah Jessica Parker in it? Is there something in my music collection you want me to get rid of because it is not healthy for me or it hurts You?

Ulrich: That is the tough part but hey, sometimes needed.

Brett: When I was in high school I gave up reading a lot of the fantasy stuff I was reading because some of it was getting questionable in terms of spiritual stuff (blurring the lines, making good to be evil and so on) and some of it was getting really sexual – and I don’t feel like I lost anything at all – I discovered Terry Pratchett and the Discworld series (comedy fantasy with satire) and he is brilliant and added a lot to my life especially the insights he has on life and religion (as an atheist – wow sometimes he just completely gets Christianity and the church – incredible). I moved away from watching graphically violent movies – used to love watching Scream and things like that and as I started loving God more. He filled me with a desire for better things and so graphically violent stuff disturbs me now because I know that kind of thing actually happens in the world and so why would I want to glorify it and use it for entertainment?

Ulrich: What you did in high school is a tough one to do. Giving up something you love, but Jesus did it for us…

Brett: I don’t feel I’ve lost or given up so much as I have gained. It becomes easy when you realise how it is affecting you negatively – Jesus came to bring life to the full, abundant life, and when I was filling my mind with that rubbish it certainly wasn’t promoting that, so it was quite easy to kick out the junk and find better things to fill my mind and time with.

Ulrich: I feel the same, that is exactly what I’m finding – more God and less of the world BUT we are still in the world and must get involved to move and shake – like we are doing now! And look! We are still alive; the Twilight peeps have not destroyed us!

Brett: It’s because they all fell asleep during the movie, just you wait, they are coming… I would like to end by saying I don’t think there is a hard and fast rule – I think we must be led by the Spirit and something that it not ok for me to watch might be ok for you to watch – although I would say there are definitely some movies and books I would think are not good for anyone…

Ulrich: Yes, personal conviction.

Brett Anderson: Yes, but rather, Godly conviction.

Ulrich: Thanks dude, chat soon.

Brett: And it’s a rap.

[06:13:42 AM]

*** Leave your comment here or go to http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?ref=sb#!/group.php?gid=284330912331 ***

Kill the Witch? Part 1

[19/02/2010 at 05:44:50 AM]

***Brett: Can I just say to those reading this that these conversations are aimed at wider conversation so we would love to hear your thoughts and feedback, whether you agree or disagree. Hopefully these talks prompt some kind of response and if so then please won’t you add it to our group or the blog…***

Ulrich: Hey Brett, how you doing this morning? You have real coffee this time?

Brett: I do Oreo thanks. Now it’s really a coffee talk vibe instead of just a virtual hope of coffee to come. I’m doing really well. How are you?

Ulrich: I’m fine man. You have real coffee – good news! I opted for orange juice. A real liquid is better that a virtual one… What movies have you seen lately?

Brett: Movies? Hm I watched a DVD called Management last night with Steve Zahn and Rachel from Friends – pretty cool. In terms of the big screen I would have to say Avatar in 3D (incredible and finally something toppled Titanic as biggest movie ever – yay!), Sherlock Holmes (brilliant, love Robert Downey Jnr!) and Invictus which was stunning (Matt Damon did everything that Leonardo didn’t in Blood Diamond). Oh and the new George Clooney ‘Up in the Air’ – very different but cool, dig him, but not in same league as other three.

Ulrich: I have seen Avatar, Sherlock and Invictus – all excellent, yea for good acting! What about Twilight? Are you a fan of Robert Paterson???

Brett: Eish dude, don’t get me started…what a waste of my life – if I could claim those hours back… Boring boring bo-o-o-o-oring!

Ulrich: That’s an original response, to say the least…

Brett: If Robert Patti-son stood next to a cut-out of Robert Patti-son you would not be able to tell who was who. Do you enjoy it?

Ulrich: Not really. Yes there is a slight bit of intrigue but that’s it… I see a lot of Vampires “flying” all over the media these days: Vampire Diaries, Twilight, the new song by Timbaland “When the cats come out, the bats come out to play”, etc. I think it is reflective of society at the moment- very serious and depro – so we have gone from an emo culture to a blood suckingly depressed one.

Brett: Warning: there’s an angry mob of young lady women types marching down the road with fire and pitchforks as we speak/write because you can’t diss the Twit-light….

Ulrich: Let’s see who lives the longest…

Brett: I think monster/magic movies have been around for a long time – they pose some kind of escapism perhaps from the real natural actual problems and issues we face which we struggle to get away from – we can watch and scream and get involved and “participate” because we know it’s not real. Then afterwards we return back to reality. I know a lot of Christian types will probably be on the “don’t watch Twilight because it’s evil” bandwagon but to be honest I’m more of a “don’t watch Twilight because it’s rubbish” kind of guy. It was the same when Harry Potter came out. There was a lot of Christian anti-hype and I wanted to check it out and see what all the fuss was about, so I read the first book (thought it was good) read the second book (thought it was boring and useless) and stopped reading – have watched the movies though just to see how the story progresses mostly.

Ulrich: This can surely not always be bad though or always a form of escape. I think of movies like Lord of the Rings, Dark Night, Stardust, etc. I love fantasy and those were great with interesting messages. That is where Twilight failed for me – lack of message besides depression and greed.

Brett: Well I don’t think escape needs to be seen in a negative light always – but I totally think Lord of the Rings and other fantasy movies are that because we get to escape to a world of fantasy and make believe and just enjoy the adventure – very different from a movie like ‘Taken’ with Liam Neeson which is about child trafficking. We know the sombre reality is that that is real and so it is harder to disconnect and enjoy. So let me pose you the question since you started with Twilight. Is it okay for Christ followers to watch movies like that and Harry Potter?

Ulrich: Mmm, I never personally got into Harry Potter. I have seen one out of the 5???! Have not read any of the books… This issue could come down to a personal conviction – I might be ok with it and you might not. So how should we see escapism and how should it be controlled?

Brett: I think the movies are generally an escapism in terms of entertainment and that is fine – but if it becomes a world you get obsessed with (as many do) then it becomes a problem – or if you have to keep escaping all the time to avoid dealing with stuff in real life then it is not great. I think you have to be very careful when dealing with the occult in any form – the movies and books start with kind of a casual curiosity but there is a chance they will lead people down darker paths. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to avoid watching/reading but I’m not sure if it’s necessary to not if that makes sense.

Ulrich: Yea so if we tie what you and I said together- watch it as escapism but don’t get so sucked into it so that it takes away from, what actually should be a beautiful, but not always easy, reality which we have all individually been given. With some media I get an uneasy feeling and in that case I will stay away from it.

Brett: Absolutely and I think that is the key here – I believe there are some things that, for someone who follows Jesus, should really not be watched or read. I think it can relate to personality as well because there are some people who are more prone to getting sucked into things like that and going overboard and they need to be more careful. I have quite an addictive personality and need to watch out.

Ulrich: Where do you draw the line?

Brett: I used to read a LOT of fantasy growing up until sometime in high school when the lines between good and evil in a lot of the books became very blurred and also some of them had some strong sexual content. I made a decision to avoid all fantasy (with the exception of Terry Pratchett who writes satirical fun stuff) just to be on the safe side. I think as a Christ follower rather err on the side of safe – there is never going to be a book or film that if you miss it your life will be worse off – best movie I’ve ever seen must be Schindler’s List but if I hadn’t seen it I don’t think my life would have been worse off – so when in doubt, don’t!

Ulrich: I agree and that is how I have lived my life and honestly I, or rather God has saved me from a lot of junk! What about C.S. Lewis? No sexual content there. Promise.

Brett: C.S. Lewis is great – just wish they could do a better job. I enjoyed the Narnia movies but in the hands of a better director and maybe with more money backing those could have been on the same level as Rings –  and it sucks that they’re not because now it gets lumped into the “not bad for a Christian movie” category. I guess it happened with music where the Christ followers eventually stood up and said “hey we can make great music and sing about Jesus as opposed to lame music with Jesus lyrics” and so now you get some bands (Tree63, Skillet, Underoath, etc) that are quality bands making quality sounds. I just wish the movie industry could follow suit. I’m tired of watching bad Christian movies.

Ulrich: I enjoyed the old BBC Narnia movies more… Now the question is… rolling of the drums… What about those people who don’t doubt but just do, or watch?

Brett: Well like I said, you have to be careful – if you claim to follow Jesus then I think it’s essential that you are aware of what input you allow into your life whether it’s music, movies or books.

Ulrich: Another factor is that we should check how much time we devote to what in our lives. If we are spending many hours in fantasy and two minutes with God, family, real life or friends then we should start to question.

Brett: Agreed yes, same as with social networks, anything in excess is bad. There are some movies (heavy sexual content, heavy graphic violence content, heavy negative spiritual content) that I really believe as a Christ-follower we should not be watching. Another thing –  If I claim to love the beautiful Val (my lovely wife) but listen to a band that sings “Valerie is a witch” lyrics when talking specifically about her then I have to question whether I really love her and yet people do that to God.

Ulrich: Dr Arnold Mole has a useful tip – he says that he has his TV set on parental control up to PG13. Why? He knows that if he does not do that and is flipping through channels, he will watch the programme, dodgy or not, out of interest, so he prevents the damage instead of trying to find a cure later.

Brett: Yeah that’s sound advice – again, if in doubt don’t. We get enticed and like I said if there is never going to be a movie that is going to radically transform your life then why should anyone even take the risk?

[06:17:00 AM]

***To be continued***

Where is the Love?

[10/02/2010 at 05:20:34 AM]

Ulrich: Hey Brett, you ready to vibe again?

Brett: Hey Oreo, I totally am, what we talking about today?

Ulrich: My question is one that a lot of people really struggle with – Why do natural disasters happen? Where is the love?

Brett: Wo, heavy topic – natural disasters? I thought we were going to be talking about Valentine’s Day…

Ulrich: Er… Sorry man.

Brett: Um, natural disasters like tsunamis, earthquakes and stuff, or like Brittney Spears shaving incidents or Amy Whinehouse moments?

Ulrich: All I suppose – personal and global disasters. Britney Spears – LOL… Let me phrase the question differently – Why do bad things happen to good people?

Brett: In the beginning, God created… and so on – that is the framework with which I see and understand the world so already there are going to be a lot of people disagreeing and saying ‘no it isn’t so!’ That’s ok, but I suggest (to everyone reading this) just following for a moment and trying to understand the answer through that lens. So God creates the world and people and He proclaims everything good. I view that through four different relationships: God and man, man and man (mankind), man and the family, man and nature. All four are positive relationships.

Ulrich: Yes, agreed.

Brett: Man then disobeys God and sins which in essence is choosing against God, and he gets punished and so all of the four relationships are damaged. Man gets thrown out of the Garden of Eden (man and God), Cain kills Abel (man and man, man and the family) and God curses the ground to make it difficult for man to labour and farm (man and nature). We can see through the Bible (or just by watching the news on TV actually) that these relationships are now damaged: man and nature we see in areas such as extinction of species, pollution, over mining resources, etc; man and mankind we see in war, rape, racism, oppression of the poor and sexism; Man and the family is seen in abuse, neglect, divorce, single parent families and absent parents; and lastly, man and God are seen in different religions, people making other things idols and gods in their lives, etc.

Ulrich: Starting to understand…. Man and nature’s relationship, now damaged, will affect all people.

Brett: Yes, like you said, the damaged relationship between man and nature now affects all.

Ulrich: Makes sense.

Brett: So to sum it up – sin happens… or the effects and consequences of sin happen.

Ulrich: Popular headlines at the moment: “Red Cross Red Crescent responds to devastating earthquake.” “Please help the victims of the quake in Haiti now.” The Haiti disaster destroyed many people’s lives. Another question people love to ask but really grapple with is; “Why did God let this happen, I thought your God (the Christian God) was a God of love?”

Brett: Two questions there… The first one is possibly as you asked before “why do bad things happen to good people?” and not sure you can always call Christians “good people” but there is a verse in Matthew 5:45 that reads; “He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

Ulrich: Good people did not necessarily refer to Christians…

Brett: Yeah totally, but I think that can be our perception sometimes – but getting back to the question you asked… A common misconception is “become a Christian and God will protect you from bad stuff” which is just not true. In fact, sometimes there may be more bad stuff because you are a Christ follower, but the Bible does say God will be with you and give you the resources necessary to deal with those times and troubles.

Ulrich: 1 Corinthians 10:13 – “No Temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.”

Brett: Now answering your previous question; “Why did God let this happen, I thought your God (the Christian God) was a God of love?” At the moment we have been left in a world where sin has entered and caused a breakdown in the four relationships I mentioned and God has not become a giant genie in the sky that just waves His hands and fixes everything – but rather He is in a process of redeeming creation, the four relationships and making all things new. So when God came down to earth in the person of Jesus He set about rebuilding these relationships. Through Jesus’ life and teaching various things pertaining to the different relationships are evident. His death symbolises the ultimate restoring of the man and God relationship. In the beginning God sets man over creation and says govern it wisely and because man failed (and continues largely to fail) to do so, we live with the consequences of that.

Ulrich: True, so God STILL loves us! It is due to sin that we have to deal with this messed up world. God never intended it to be this way, but we wanted freedom to choose; now we have it. How can He say He loves us if we are not given free choice?

Brett: Yes, I think you have it there – it is a tough question with no easy answer. I think because when something like Haiti happens and hundreds of thousands of people die you HAVE to ask “where is God in that?” I think part of God’s answer will be “where is my church in that?” We live in a messed up world because of sin but what are we doing as the body of Christ (what the church is called) to make a difference?? We have largely chosen (or maybe our parents and their parents) the world we live in and we continue to choose (through good or bad decisions – to recycle or not to recycle, to protect the endangered species…) the world our kids will live in.

Ulrich: Yes, go green; it’s the only way to save our planet! Haha! I think that helps but let us first return to the one who made us.

Brett: I think God is calling us to be green and maybe that’s an area where, till recently, the church has missed out on part of its, our, calling. TbV (my wife, the beautiful Val) and I recently started holding “no meat Thursdays” (one day a week with no meat) and also recycling because we see it as part of our responsibility as Christ followers to be involved in the redemption of our planet.

Ulrich: That’s great! I have a few personal green goals/projects like that too. Telling someone who is dealing with great loss, due to this fallen world, everything we have discussed might be too much for them to handle. How would you try and “ease” their pain?

Brett: One of my favourite verses in the Bible is psalm 34.18 which says “the Lord is close to the broken-hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.” It says to me that no matter how low you go – because there is not really any lower than having a broken heart or having your spirit crushed –  that God is there, He gets it, He cares for you and brings strength – and yes, we as the church should be doing the same. A little spanner in the works – I read a verse recently, I sadly can’t remember where it is, that suggested that maybe sometimes God can cause things like that to happen to get our attention and hopefully bring us back to Him. That is quite a hectic thought.

Ulrich: Beautiful verse, intense thought.

Brett: There is a cartoon I saw once – with two guys sitting under a tree…

Ulrich: The suspense…

Brett: The first one turns to the second one and says; “sometimes I want to ask God why He doesn’t do more about the suffering in the world, about the AIDS pandemic, about the lack of education, the poverty, the rape, people having abortions, the broken families and so on.” His friend turns to him and says, “Well why don’t you?” The first responds; “I’m afraid He’ll ask me the same question.” There is also the story of the hunter walking through the forest. He sees a little pygmy standing next to a dead dinosaur (true story!). He asks him what happened and the pygmy says “I killed him.” He looks at the huge dinosaur and the tiny little pygmy, and he looks back at the huge dinosaur and the tiny little pygmy. In disbelief he asks “how’d you kill him?” and the pygmy says “with my club.” The hunter looks at the huge dinosaur and the tiny pygmy and asks “how big is your club?” The pygmy answers “there are 500 of us!” – Beautiful picture of what the church is meant to be and what they can achieve when they are focused and on it… Like during the xenophobia attacks in South Africa for example – horrible horrible thing. Usually when stuff like that happens the church plays catch-up to the world rushing in with aid etc – but I remember that, when it happened, was one of the times when I was so proud of the church because on the news, in the papers and on TV all you could hear about were churches getting involved, churches opening up to people who had been attacked, providing food and clothes and so on – God’s people in action.

Ulrich: Conclusion: God still loves us; He wants us to remain in Him through all! That is really tough sometimes but from personal experience, really rewarding. I’m not saying that everyone now HAS to become a Christian, but for me, having a relationship with God is the only way…

Brett: Yeah having God in your life is the best way to deal with the tragedy that inevitably strikes. A faith in Christ empowers us to be helping others who are dealing with the same issues, but also that we look forward to a time when God has said there will be no more crying, no more sickness, disease or natural disasters. Those who are in Him will live in paradise once more… So relationship with God doesn’t promise exemption from disease, tragedy and death, but it does promise that God, who says He will never leave you nor forsake you, will be with you through whatever happens in your life, good or bad, easy or excruciatingly difficult. He loves you so very much.

Ulrich: Let love (God’s love and love for each other) replace the question. We may not grasp all things, but in Christ we have peace in chaos.

Brett: Sounds right to me. Good summation. It’s been great chatting O, must really remember to put the kettle on before these chats. It will have to be a post chat coffee this morning! Have a super great day.

Ulrich: Thanks, ditto! I’m off to turn that beautiful kettle on too…

Bye for now.

Brett: Cheers buddy!

[05:58:37 AM]

Online Humans

Image via CrunchBase

[03/02/2010 at 05:22:31 AM]

Brett: Hey man, nice coffee this fine morning. What’s on your mind?

Ulrich: Hey Brett, how do you feel about Facebook, Myspace and all these cyber places that now take up so much of our time?

Brett: Hm, good question – if you’re meaning are they good or bad I’d have to say both. Although, personally I’d say Myspace is bad – or at least last time I looked it had a lot more potential to be bad than Facebook or Twitter has seemed to. I think with any of those sites, the question is, how do you make use of them? Or… are the sites using you…  As in do they work as a social networking tool or do they own you?

Ulrich: I would agree with you on that – they are good and bad. Myspace does seem a little dodge, although possibly good for bands and musicians… The question that I ask myself is, is there enough good to justify the bad? Wait, first, what’s bad about them?

Brett: Well, if you only live online and don’t have any real friends I would say that is bad (and pretty sad). If they are a substitute for real friendships that is tragic, but if they are an enhancer of existing friendships then they can be really cool. When I last used Myspace, which is now probably over two years ago (once I discovered Facebook I never looked back), I found it had a lot of dodgy content you could get exposed to even if you were not looking for it, so I guess lots of temptation and stuff… With Facebook you can control the content you receive a lot more and the owners/organisers are a lot more hands on in terms of keeping content clean (to some extent).

Ulrich: Facebook destroyed the Myspace vibe. It’s very easy to let these programmes take control of our lives. Do you feel this problem has something to do with pride?

Brett: Um, I think laziness sometimes – easier to sit behind a computer and play friend than be a real friend – also it’s more comfortable because online you can always be a persona (choose to show what you let somebody see and who you appear to be), whereas in real life people get the good, bad, see the warts, bad skin and so on. What do you mean by pride?

Ulrich: What I mean is that many times we go online to boost our egos. We use these programmes to hide our insecurities. There was this movie which recently came out, end of last year, called Surrogates – it illustrates my point. Have you heard of it?

Brett: Bruce Willis, yeah, little bit disappointing, was hoping for more. Still, yes, that can be the vibe – live life through someone or something else. There are a lot of people with a low self-image, or who are lonely, who do just that.

Ulrich: Yes, not the best movie but does convey this message. Pride – the ego boost: “I have 3000 friends, like Brett, I must be amazing!”

Brett: Ha ha, that Brett guy, yes I guess there may be that! When I spoke earlier about social networking programmes being what you make of them – that explains why I have 3000 friends. I try and use Facebook as a ministry and communication tool which is where the positive side comes in. I speak at a lot of camps, churches, etc and so I get an opportunity to meet lots of people or be exposed to them (in a non dodgy way). So I add them to create the possibility of future contact and I do stay in contact with a HUGE percentage of the 3000 – but I also use my notes page and more recently my blog on WordPress to challenge and encourage, and hopefully inspire people in their relationship with Jesus (or lack thereof).

Ulrich: Awesome. How do we manage our time?

Brett: Time management can be one of the negative sides of Facebook – if you are playing Farmville for 3 hours a day (never played it so I don’t know if you can play that long – have denied a LOT of requests though) and then have “no time for devotional hangout time with Jesus” there is a problem. Twitter as well – I think the danger is some people are so busy “twittering” about things that they miss out on the real issues in life…

Ulrich: Your answer reminds me of the lyrics from an Elevntyseven song; “You’ve got to use your mind to save your soul”.

Brett:: Yes, definitely, good lyrics, and I think that’s the challenge to anyone on these sites – is this thing (Twitter, Myspace, Facebook, YouTube, etc) bringing me closer to God or away from God, is it bringing me closer to people or removing me from being in contact with people?

Ulrich: Yea, the song is called Happiness. They sing about how the world’s version of happiness destroyed their lives, they now live in Jesus. So when we use our “online lives” we should realise and acknowledge our reasons for being online.

How’s your coffee holding up?

Brett: I need to actually make some – this virtual coffee is not working for me.

Ulrich: My virtual coffee sucks too. Rooibos would not be bad…

[Ulrich and Brett pause to put their kettles on]

Ulrich: Back to the topic; what about Mxit?

Brett: Oh happy day – virtual coffee has been replaced by the real thing proving that a real life is always better than a fake one! Mxit can also have a positive or negative effect – for me the idea of meeting people on Mxit is dumb, maybe because I struggle to keep in contact with those I already know – but to enhance relationships it is amazing. Like when I was dating the beautiful Val and used up a 500 sms bundle in four days, it was a monetary pleasure to move things to Mxit. So I would say one should use Mxit to have chats with people you know but don’t meet people there – too dangerous because dodgy “okes” hang out there.

Going back to Facebook… On the question of whether the person you are online represents who you are in real life; if I call myself a follower of Jesus and yet my status lines are filled with swearing and I have applications like “what stripper name are you?'” or “what type of serial killer would you be?” then I think you are sending out mixed messages – who you are online needs to be consistent with who you are or who you are saying you are.

Ulrich: Yes, I have noticed so many pages where people have their religious status as “Christian”, but that’s about the only Christian thing on their page! One more question about Mxit… When we spoke IN REAL LIFE about Mxit you spoke about an online bible study. That’s a cool idea too. I suppose that was not a question but more of a statement…

Brett: Oh yeah we moved that to gmail chat (happening in 15 min actually) and so every day a few of us read a chapter in the Bible and then we chat online for 45 min – can also work on Mxit – one positive way of using a networking tool to grow your relationship with God. For example; there is a guy in Durban, two guys in Pinelands and myself in Stellenbosch and we have a bible study together four mornings a week – it is insane how technology can enhance things.

Ulrich: It’s totally insane.

Brett: Yeah, back to Facebook… My wife and I met this Christian couple who both have “Christian” on their Facebook pages. They broke up and started saying the most horrible things about each other publicly in statuses. It was just such an awful representation of Jesus following. So in itself the social networking device is not bad but there are ways you can use it to lead people towards Jesus and ways of leading people away from God.

Ulrich: I agree. This whole online issue reminds me of Nintendo Wii. People are now substituting outdoor sport and exercise for something just as good??? Not sure. No offence to any Wii users!

Brett: Yes exactly, regarding the Wii thing – you should never Wii indoors… The same applies to Facebook or Mxit… They should be an enhancer of friendships, not a substitute for them.

Ulrich: Right; so in ending; use your time, all of it, for God and to continue real relationships, being intentional about everything that we do!

Brett: One advantage is the distance thing – we are a church in a student town and so a lot of people pass through for a term or a couple of years. Facebook helps me stay in contact with some of them which is amazing! I can chat and share photos with people I have met overseas and in that way still share in there lives. That is a bonus of FB.

Ulrich: Facebook has definitely helped me stay in contact with friends in other countries; that has been a great.

Brett: Look for the way to be intentional, like you said – you can use Mxit/Twitter/Facebook in a positive or negative way in terms asking; “How is this affecting me? Is it for the better or the worse?” You can also take it a step further and actually ask how I can use this for God’s kingdom. So, for example, using notes to ask real questions about faith in a public forum and giving other people space to question, challenge or discuss.

Ulrich: Agreed, like what we doing now.

Brett: Yes! Shot for the chat Oreo, something we can’t do live right now because you are far away. Have a rad thriving day. Chat soon.

Ulrich: You too. One day it will be live…

Brett: On DSTV… with Vida e and Zoo biscuits…

Ulrich: Brilliant!

[05:54:47 AM]