Yoking

How is this for an illustration?

[20/03/2010 at 08:04 AM]

Ulrich: Hey Brett.

Brett: Hey man.

Ulrich: Love.

Brett: Love?

Ulrich: Yes, love.

Brett: “All you need is.” dum dum ddah dah dum.

Ulrich:  “Love, love, love!”

Brett:  Although sometimes it does feel like you have to queue to get love

I highly recommend it!

Ulrich: Should a non-Christian date a Christian?

Brett:  I guess a non-Christian can date a Christian… It’s possible, mathematically speaking… should a Christ-follower date someone who is not? Absolutely, emphatically not!

Ulrich:  Ok, let us discuss… He says; “I love you more than anything.” She says; “I love Jesus more than anything.”

Brett: Let me interject right at the beginning… I have heard this one a LOT of times – every camp I speak on, anytime we do a talk on relationships or a Q and A, is it okay for Christians to date non-Christians and let me give you a clue to the answer – the people asking the question, in my experience, are always dating non-Christians or wanting to, or know a good friend who is… I have never heard of someone who is strong in their faith, and who has no wish to date someone who is non-Christian, arguing that it’s a good idea as an isolated topic – it’s always a question with intent so to speak. Let’s hit it head on because a lot of people are wishy-washy in their answers or opinions to the question and mine was pretty emphatic which I believe is true – I think a reasonable understanding of the Bible and the plan of God for your life will leave you without a shadow of a doubt that it is wrong. A lot of people will quote 2 Corinthians 6.14 which talks about not being yoked together with unbelievers as the definitive Scripture. I do think that is a verse that speaks into it. Yoking being a farming analogy where they would stick two big man cows into this heavy wooden frame which would keep them walking in the same direction to harness their power for ploughing etc. In verse 17 it goes on to say “come out from them and be separate.” This is more the bit I want to focus on. From the beginning God calls Israel and says “I want you to be different from the rest of the world and reflect my glory” – He warns them against becoming intimate in relationships with people from other tribes and one can see again and again, as Israel disobeyed and intermarried etc, that they turned away from God and ended up following other gods. Traditionally (maybe because more girls are Christians?) it is the girl who is a Christian and the guy who is not (although it definitely can happen the other way around). More often than not (there are exceptions but very few and far between) it is the Christian who moves away from God.

Ulrich:  Is this always the case? Do relationships where they are, to use the expression, “unequally yolked” never work? Have you met a couple where this has worked?

Brett:  There are cases where they have worked, but I really think it is a case of God working good in a bad situation (a sinful one I would say) as opposed to God instigating it (for the most part – I mean God told one of his prophets to marry a prostitute to make a point in the Old Testament, so God has the freedom to lead someone on a different path). I met a couple from England. The woman was a Christian and he was not when they met. They dated and got married and on their journey, I can’t remember when it happened, he became a Christian and they believed it was right but I’m not so sure – it may have been in their case… but again I’m not so sure it wasn’t just God working despite disobedience as opposed to Him leading something.

Ulrich:  I believe God can work in all situations… but we should still be careful.

Brett:  I think we need to understand why dating a non believer is wrong and unhealthy (for both sides actually) as opposed to saying it’s just not the best of ideas… People who want to be in a relationship always manage to hear God “pushing them into it” if they are desperately wanting it, and it just may not be God! Let’s talk about the “why” a bit. What do you think?

Ulrich:  Why is it wrong? I’d say because they do not have the same centre point. God and doing his works will be the centre of the one’s life, but not of the other’s life. A conflict of interests is created… The conflict can make it difficult for the believer to go to church, have quiet times, etc. This pulls the believer’s focus away from God.

Brett:  It also pulls their focus away from each other and so the relationship will always be strained – the non believer doesn’t quite “get” what the believer’s primary passion and thrill in life is – this will breed frustration and possibly resentment.

Ulrich: So dating and marriage, in the worldly sense of these concepts, are seen as very different relationships that don’t necessarily lead into the other. What I’m saying: is it ok to date a non Christ follower but just not marry him/her?

Brett:  For me, dating should always be pointing to marriage – not saying that we will marry everyone we date (please no) but the purpose of dating is to see whether this is the type of person we will marry one day. If I am dating a non-Christian, then for me, God is the most important thing in my life and for her it will be something else – might be herself or me or popularity or money or whatever – but what it means is that we cannot, as a couple, share the thing that is most important to us – how sad is that? Just seems retarded for both the Christ follower and the non believer. This is also very destructive…

Ulrich:  Yes I agree.

Brett: Then, like you said, the biggest danger is that the Christ follower is pulled away from their first love which should be Jesus. It is always easier to pull someone away from something they believe, than to get someone to believe something new. The old analogy of a person on a table explains this – it is easier for the person on the ground to pull them down (assisted by gravity) than it is for the person on the table to pull the person up (fighting against gravity) and so generally the person falls.

Ulrich: It is fairly retarded but still something many of us struggle with. For the couple already in a relationship like this, what would you advise them to do? Break up?

Brett:  Break up.

Ulrich: What about conversion?? It is dangerous to try to convert a person you are dating!

Brett: You know, we even have a title for it – missionary dating – I am going to date this person to lead them to Jesus – and you know what? The premise is flawed. What is the main difference between being someone’s friend and dating them? The physical stuff right? I have never heard of anyone who has been brought closer to Jesus through saliva. So if you are being genuine about leading them to Jesus (which should be priority one, well loving them should be priority one) then you can do that as a friend and there will be less distraction as well because the physical stuff (and some of the other stuff in relationships) can really distract.

Ulrich: Very true

Brett:  I don’t think it’s a genuine argument to be honest – I think it’s a cop-out or an excuse – someone trying to cover up disobedience.

Ulrich:  What if the Christian genuinely does not care that they are dating a person who does not share their faith? Is this a personal conviction or a “black or white”/”right or wrong” issue?

Brett:  If a person genuinely does not care that they are dating a person who does not share their faith then apart from all the healthy/unhealthy stuff we’ve spoken of, they have serious obedience issues (unless by reading Scripture they absolutely believe God says it is ok which I don’t think they’ll find) and then are they following Jesus and is He Lord?

Ulrich:  If the Christian does not date the non-believer, does it not give the impression of “I’m better than you and I can’t date you because you are not saved like me”, making the unbeliever feel the Christian is superior to him/her? This argument is used a lot.

Brett:  Well if it’s how they feel you can’t really change that but I guess a lot of it will be in the way it comes across – if you explain to them that it’s not about being better but it’s about being true to the most important person in your life, Jesus, they may not fully understand, and probably wont, but they will more than likely respect that (and if they don’t then they are not the kind of person you would want to be dating anyways). They must feel loved but they must know that God is first in your life and one shouldn’t come across as arrogant or better because you’re not and it’s not about that – it’s not about them being a horrible person, it’s about you needing to be with someone who is in love with the same God you are. Matthew 22 says something about Love the Lord your God with ALL YOUR HEART, it has to start there.

Ulrich: If you come across as arrogant, then you are more about religion than a relationship with Christ.

Brett:  Absolutely on the religion thing. Just diving back to right at the beginning, too often I have seen girls enter into a relationship with a guy who is not a Christian with the intention of leading him to Jesus, being completely genuine about that, but have watched them move away from God and rarely seen it work the other way around.

Ulrich:  Rarely… So possibility exists that it can work? Obviously yes because God can work in and through any situation BUT… Don’t go looking for it. Although I suppose you don’t always look for it…

Brett:  Not even “don’t go looking for it” – hear the strong words – stay away – don’t do it – avoid at all costs – run away – hasta la vista baby!

Ulrich:  If you want to date a non-believer and you are a Christ follower, what should you do?

Brett:  If you are attracted to someone who doesn’t know Jesus, then the most important thing for the person that you like, in order for them to be in the best possible place (which is what you’d want, right?) would not be for them to go out with you but for them to meet with God. Instead of selfishly chasing the relationship with them (getting your needs satisfied), chase their biggest need and pray for them. Invite them to church, youth, watch a Louie Giglio or Rob Bell DVD and just completely love them (outside of a dating relationship) so that they can encounter Jesus. There is a better way – for you and for them – and if you have fallen for someone who is not in relationship with God then just know God has better for you (and again we not talking about a better person but a person who is more right, and will be better in the relationship).

Ulrich:  Ok, so if you, a Christian, are in the relationship with someone who does not share your faith, break up?

Brett:  I would highly encourage it – it is really tricky for someone who is already in relationship but again you are benefiting your relationship with God by being in the right place – you know what, here’s my advice, genuinely ask God. God should I break up with this guy/girl or should I stay in the relationship… Do WHATEVER He says and honestly listen for His voice not your heart. One other cool story – a lady in my dad’s church became a Christian after she was married and so you end up with a Christian and a non-Christian married with kids (in fact God gives counsel on this in the Bible and says it’s your choice but stay together if you can) and she stayed with him and basically loved him into the kingdom and it took years but he watched her and saw the difference and couldn’t help noticing the lack in his own life. BUT again that’s the exception, and not cause to go oh well let me be in relationship with a non-Christian because the same might happen to me – but it’s possible for those who may already be in relationship that God may say, “you know what carry on, love this guy/girl, show them something higher, lead them to Me.”

Ulrich:  What about two people from different denominations, e.g. a Catholic and a Baptist? For certain families’ religious views (due to tradition), it is a disaster if their child does not marry/date a person from the same denomination and church as them. BUT in terms of a relationship with Christ, if he is the centre of both your lives, then denomination is irrelevant!

Brett:  I don’t think your denomination matters (at all really, not even just within this topic, as long as it’s Biblically based and open to the Holy Spirit etc) although if you are involved in different local churches that might be hard to manage. One of the key things within a relationship – which does relate to this topic – is values – and so I would say avoid entering a relationship with someone with strongly differing values to you. There could be cases where denominations lead to that. Your relationship will be formed around shared values (so number one value is the relationship each of you have with Jesus) and the core values of who you are need to be close – in terms of the practices (things you do) they are not as important but values; definitely. If it is a core value, it will cause friction.

Ulrich: Will it definitely end in divorce?

Brett:  Yeesh hectic statement Oreo, God can work good in all things and if there is a couple together already with very different core values God can definitely work in that and it doesn’t have to go there – I’m talking more from the perspective of choosing someone to date and later marry – sharing similar core values is a good way of seeing how the relationship will go. God hates divorce but loves divorced people just as much as married and single people.

Ulrich:  Last question on this topic…What if the guy is a one day old Christian and the girl has been a Christ follower for 10 years?

Brett:  Yeah that’s an interesting question and I’m not sure there is a hard and fast rule – definitely not as black and white as a Christ follower and unbeliever, but I would imagine the difference in spiritual maturity could become an issue – there is a Biblical principle of the man leading in a relationship which I know will get a lot of women up in arms although it is in the Bible so how we work around that one is a different story. I think whether it’s the guy or girl the difference in spiritual understanding/maturity etc could become something that distracts or trips up because they are in different places needing different things – but it totally doesn’t have to.

Ulrich:  It can work as long as both are first focussed on Christ.

Brett:  The basis of any relationship between Christ followers should be that, so yes. I would encourage the couple to think about it and pray and ask people who know them both whether it’s a good idea and then act on the advice and leading from God, but I would not have any problem with that. They might need to get their teaching and growth from different sources but they can both encourage each other in the different places they are at – the young Christian sees things from a fresh perspective and so may have a lot to teach the older one and the older one hopefully has greater experience and can help direct and lead and share experiences – so win/win.

Ulrich:  Yes win/win!

Brett:  I am married to the beautiful Val and it is amazing that the most important thing to her is the most important thing to me which is God and our relationship with Him – it brings us closer together and it is the centre for everything else – so our relationship flows from a mutual place which is incredible whereas if you have a different core value, whatever it is, it can only push you apart and be a source of friction – you would have to be an idiot to choose that for yourself and another person, the end.

[08:55 AM]